Wednesday, June 11, 2008

The reality of marriage

The very best response I have read to the unfortunate ruling by the California Supreme Court comes from His Excellency, Allen Vigneron, bishop of the Diocese of Oakland:

"I begin with the most fundamental point: Marriage is a reality authored by God in his very act of creating the human race. According to his irrevocable plan, the marriage relationship is only possible between one man and one woman. The purposes of this relationship are (1) the mutual loving support of husband and wife and (2) their loving service of life by bringing children into the world and raising them to be virtuous and productive. The experience of history – both ancient and in our own time – has taught us that no government has the power to change the order which God has inscribed in our nature."

It is well worth your while to read the rest of the Pastoral Message from Bishop Vigneron to the Faithful of the Oakland Diocese.

Fred has sage words for slackers, like myself.


  1. I'm from Europe.This is true for religious marriage but in California, as in France, Spain, Belgium and so on we are speaking about civil marriage.
    "Natural law" isn't a law, doesn't exist, as any serious law and jurisprudence scolar can say.
    It is unfair to mix religious and civil.

  2. Natural law is that which creates the very ground of possibility for there to be any law at all. No serious scholar of law and jurisprudence would dismiss natural law as lightly as you suggest. If nothing else, whether it be Roman law or Anglo-Saxon law, natural has played a significant and vital role in their development.

    Spain and France, like Italy, find the roots of their current systems of jurisprudence in Roman law by way of canon law. Therefore, an understanding of natural law is necessary, even if one does not believe that civil law should pay any attention to natural law, which is sheer foolishness and folly. After all, just think of the demographic issues in all the European countries you mention. It is slow civilizational suicide.

    Precisely because we make an appeal to natural law, which is evident to reason, quite apart from faith, it is not a case of mixing religious and civil law.

  3. Gustavo Zagrebesky former President of Italian Corte Costituzionale (Supreme court), philosopher and Italian senator Noberto Bobbio, and many others jurists have dismissed your opinion about natural law. Their view is largely predominant in Europe.

    Civil marriage is unrelated with “natural law”. Civil marriage is also unrelated with procreation. Last week in Italy a paraplegic man unable to have sex , after a refusal of religious catholic marriage, married with civil marriage and a couple’s will of not to have children is never ground for civil marriage annulment.

    France and other European countries where same-sex marriage or civil gay partnership exist have a birthrate much higher than Italy, obviously this doesn’t hurt the marriage.

    Italy has had 51 catholic governments out of 60, and the Catholic Church's power is very strong here, we don’t have same-sex marriage , but the birthrate is the lowest in Europe, evidently the Catholic Church deeply hurts the marriage and the family.

  4. Natural law isn't the sort of thing that can be rejected. One is free to reject the theory of gravity and pay it no heed, yet it persists. Natural law is the same way. Besides, we sort of agree. As for me there isn't anything the state can do change the nature of marriage. On a secular view marriage is merely a contract. If one views it this way, which most do, then it doesn't much matter who "marries" who. Polygamy and other arrangements becomes state sanctioned, as long the degrees of consangunuity and the age of consent are not breached. Finally, marriage becomes meaningless. This already presents a crisis for western civilization and contributes to the hosility of non-cultures toward the west, which they rightly perceive as rejected what is right, good, an natural. So, "marry" whoever you wish.

    Italy having the lowest birth rate in Europe is not the result of Italy being overwhelmingly Catholic, which it is only in some residual way. It is the result of the rejection of the Catholic faith. Your logic all over the place because you writing from and appealing to emotion.