Michael Stipe, T.S. Eliot, and Anonymous

Anonymous said...
You really cannot admit you didn't know the upstream source for this song, can you? You reference it a lot without referencing the source. Not knowing all things intellectual is not a personal weakness. LOL.
http://poetry.poetryx.com/poems/784/

October 19, 2008 8:20 AM

I reply:

Dear Anonymous:

First, I offer a reminder about how things work here on this blog. Secondly, I offer a commentary after a comparison made on the occasion of your first comment.

1) I do not publish anonymous critical comments. I am more than happy to publish and engage critical comments that are signed. I am making an exception in this case by posting your comment to show why I set forth this rule. I really dislike passive-aggression.

2) I actively ask my readers to hold me accountable, but I do not feel like I have to pander. I don't find any weakness in the fact that I did not make the connection between Eliot's poem and Stipe's lyrics when I first posted the video, or while later alluding to the song. After making a comparision, the only connection I see between the lyrics and the poem is by way of allusion (see commentary below), which is typical of Stipe's very oblique style of reference, which is kind of stream-of-consciousness, very modern in the way Eliot so despised. I thank you for the opportunity to briefly compare the two, looking at the lyrics of the song in light of Eliot's verses.

2.a) So, I reference the song a lot without referencing the song? You reference Eliot's poem a lot without referencing Stipe's song, which is the object of my references. It may surprise you to learn that underneath the title is a whole song with lyrics that have meaning even if one has never heard of T.S. Eliot, or his poem, Hollow Men. If anything, Stipe's hollow man stands in stark contrast to Eliot's Hollow Men (see commentary below).

3) How about an interesting and constructive comment in which you make some connections between REM's song Hollow Man and Eliot's poem The Hollow Men? Such a contribution would be more than welcome. A constructive comment would not even need to be signed.

4) You could fill the world with things I don't know. I learn something new everyday. I frequently share what I learn here by way of synthesis and making connections. It makes life exciting. I hope it makes reading my blog interesting. I am well of aware of my weaknesses, physical, moral, intellectual, etc. I am also aware that I have blind spots. Despite all of this, I believe I have a pretty good sense of humor when it comes to my foibles. This lightness towards my own failings is victory hard won and is still a struggle at times. I benefit tremendously from the comments and corrections of readers, who I prefer to think of as friends.

So, in an effort to make prime rib out of a bucket of s@#t, I humbly offer my . . .

Commentary:

I freely admit that I am not a huge devoteé of Eliot, nor I do I read a lot of poetry. He is far from my favorite poet. When I read poetry, I do not reach for Eliot because, to quote Stephen Patrick Morrissey, "he says nothing to me about my life".

I am also aware that it was kind of an influence on Michael Stipe's lyrics for this song. He is not ripping off Eliot, or even re-setting the poem. The song lyrics have to be assessed on their own, as any writing does. The song is written from the perspective of the hollow man. His most notable feature, the reason for the song, is his desire not to be hollow. It is difficult for me to tell, apart from the first stanza, in whose voice Eliot's poem is in. Further, I don't really care whose voice Eliot's poem is in.

While Eliot's Hollow Men (note the plural) have headpieces filled with straw and are truly empty, "Shape without form, shade without colour," Stipe's Hollow Man is aware of his emptiness, his propensity to "get lost inside his head". He also seems aware that the way to overcome his subjectivism and the resultant emptiness is by relating to other people. It is a blown opportunity to relate that occasions the song. Hence, he pleads with his beloved to "corner me and make me something". Being cornered by another is what forces him out of himself and makes him something other than a hollow man.

Stipe's hollow man, at the end of the day, is not quite convinced that he is empty, he asks "Have I become the hollow man I see?" He says, presumably to his beloved, "I want to show you I don't want to be the hollow man". Stipe's hollow man seems to be experiencing the phenomena identified in Eliot's poem:

"Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow.

Nonetheless, he is not content in the shadowland, he longs for the light of another face, the face belonging to the one for whom he longs to be something.

LMAO! ;^)> What about? That of all the provocative things I write, I get grief over this bit of minutiae! I'll leave you with a poem by Steve Martin. It is called,

Pointy Birds
Pointy Birds:

Pointy birds,
oh pointy pointy.
Anoint my head
anointy 'nointy.

Perhaps we could explore whether this was inspired by that Hitchcock film, The Birds, or by Jonathan Livingston Seagull. I prefer to just admire its austere beauty and its economy of language. While we are on matters literary, beginning and ending my commentary with a scatological reference is called framing.

Our own (human)kind: relationship with the Mystery

Giorgio Vittadini, President of the Foundation for Subsidiarity, speaking to the Italian newspaper Avvenire, which interview is reprinted in the current issue of Traces, about the internationalization of The Meeting and of Communion and Liberation, building on Paul's timely posting of Giussani's interview about Pope Paul VI, says:

"I think that the Meeting's heritage is this ethnic entity sui generis, as Paul VI defined it, made up of men and women who are different because they show that one can live in the world today without separating reason from experience, faith from life, or interest from desire, whereas the world tries to teach them the opposite."

Giorgio says of the Meeting what is true of CL in general: "We don't believe that all good things are in the Meeting and that outside is only secularism and relativism. We hold that our example and, even more, that of 'protagonists,' is contagious." Indeed, to hold such a view that outside CL, outside the church, there is only secularism and relativism would be a betrayal of the charism we share, the one given to Luigi Giussani and now entrusted to us. What we are about, when viewed from a false perspective, Giorgio continues, "can seem like a drop in the ocean". Vittadini looks back to the tumultuous year of 1968 and says that Giussani "answered those who made fun of him for wasting time with us-while the revolution was promising to change the world- [Giussani was] saying that what changes the world is what changes man's heart. We are trying to change hearts, along with othes, in dialogue, looking at each other, offering our encounter with Christ". In short, even today, we are either protagonists or nobodies. We are free. Therefore, we must choose, but we choose realizing that it does not depend on us alone, that we cannot do it alone. We need companions. CL is a companionship. What is a companion, but one who also begs for bread?


I have written more on this over on Is It Possible? in a post entitled Recognizing reality. I also urge you to go the Communion and Liberation website, select english and watch, you'll be moved.

Hierarchy update

It was announced today by the Holy See that sixty year-old Bishop Dennis M. Schnurr of Duluth, Minnesota was named as coadjutor archbishop of Cincinnati, Ohio. As with Bishop Quinn, who was announced this week as coadjutor in Winona, Minnesota, Bishop Schnurr replaces a 74 year-old ordinary. He replaces Archbishop Daniel Pilarczyk, who has served as archbishop of Cincinnati since 1982. Can we say of coadjutors that they preplace?

Bishop Schunurr's transfer increases the number of vacant sees in the United States from seven to eight.

I remember now-Archbishop Niederauer joking with me once and asking What is the difference between an auxiliary bishop and a coadjutor? I confessed ignorance (an all-too rare thing for me). He replied by telling me that an auxiliary says, Hello, Bishop how are you today?; a coadjutor asks, How's your health?

Here is the great poster the Seattle community made for my visit.

Deo gratias

I witnessed a miracle early this morning, at 2:57 AM to be precise. This miracle made me kneel in in gratitude. My lovely wife gave birth to our fifth child, a son, whom we have named Adam. It is a bit ironic being the last born and being named Adam. This little irony is a fitting welcome to the world.

Adam and his Mom are both doing well and resting comfortably.

This blog began three years ago, as Scott Dodge for Nobody, just two days before the birth of my son, Nate. In fact there is a post on the day he was born: Didactic Dialogue on God.

In addition to being the memorial of St. Ignatius of Antioch, 17 October is also the third anniversary of The Colbert Report.

In Memoriam

Rocco, writing over on Whispers, reminds us of an event that happened thirty years ago today. The Salt and Light video Rocco posted made me cry. What gift JPII was to the church, to the world.


Over on Communio, Paul has a wonderful post Msgr. Luigi Giussani speaks about Pope Paul. As long-time readers know, I love Papa Montini. So, did Don Gius. Papa Montini, prior to becoming Pope, was the Archbishop of Milan. So, he was then-Fr. Giussani's bishop and one who encouraged his charism, that is, CL, while it was still in its early form.

Here is what Giussani said about the pontificate of Montini:

"The papacy of Paul VI was one of the greatest papacies! He had demonstrated during the first part of his life an extreme sensitivity for all the problems of the anguished condition of modern man and society. And he found a response! He gave this response during his last ten years. The papacy of Paul VI is a failure only to someone who has not thoroughly examined it."

Papa Roncalli, Papa Montini, Papa Luciani, Papa Wojtyla- pray for us!

Say it ain't so Sarah and Joe the (unlicensed) plumber

I knew she would finally go there. Speaking at a rally in Maine today, Republican vice-presidential nominee, Gov. Sarah Palin, made reference to Michelle Obama’s statement from early in the campaign, a statement made even before it was clear that her husband was going to be the Democratic Party’s nominee for president. According to Glenn Adams, writing for the Associated Press:

"Palin also made reference to a remark early in the campaign by Obama's wife, Michelle, who had said that ‘for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country.’ The governor's comments came after country music star Lee Greenwood sang the ‘The Star Spangled Banner’ and ‘God Bless the USA.’"

"’We believe also that there is a reason we all get teared-up when we hear Lee Greenwood sing about America, because we love America and we are always proud of being Americans,’ she said. ‘And we don't apologize for being Americans.’"

This comes three days after Gov. Palin’s Commissioner for Rural Affairs in Alaska, Rhonda McBride, resigned. According to the Associated Press, her reason for resigning is she thinks "it would help to have an Alaska Native in this position". To be fair Todd Palin is part Yup'ik Eskimo and two of Palin's 13 cabinet members are members of Alaskan tribes. Members of indigenous tribes make up 16% of Alaska's overall population. So, her cabinet seems representative. Of course, numbers rarely tell the whole story. According to the same report, Gov. Palin left the Rural Commissioner "position unfilled her first year in office and ignored Native leaders' suggestions on the selection process".

Roger Cohen, who, in an earlier column, figured that the insurance actuarial tables give Palin a 1 in 6 or 7 chance of becoming president should the Republican ticket win, wrote that "Palin, with her vile near-accusations of treason against Barack Obama, her cloying doggone hymns to small-town U.S.A., her with-us-or-against-us refrain, is really an impostor.

"She’s the representative of a kind of last-gasp Republicanism, of an exhausted party, whose proud fiscal conservatism and patriotism have given away to scurrilous fear-mongering and ideological confusion."

Cohen wrote this column, which appears in today's NY Times, before the Maine speech. It is funny how she didn't mention hubby Todd Palin's membership in the Alaska Independence Party, which advocates for secession from this country we love. Such delicious irony and all before getting to the media circus surrounding Joe the unlicensed plumber, who would actually get a tax cut under the Obama plan and nothing under the McCain plan, and who has apparently never been introduced to the idea of a graduated income tax. He is humble, saying, "I just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself." I know how he feels, that thought runs through my mind everytime I click on the PUBLISH POST button. I have no problem with Joe. I would like more voters to step up and ask hard questions. It is the media circus, like the whole lipstick on a pig incident, that I deplore.

I have already leaned heavily on one Jewish guy. So, I'll bring in John Stewart to seal the dealio:

I am adding to my list of notable posts for today Suzanne's far too aptly entitled The moral obligation to vote and other forms of torture.

Notes and asides

I am not up to saying much new today. I want to draw attention to four posts that I found very good. The first is by my friend Sharon posting over on Clarity. She sets forth a very clear-headed take on the current election in Unreasonable Choices. The next one is by another dear friend, Rebecca, posting on Faith's Mystery, entitled Rock the Vote- v2.

Sharon posts the Synod Intervention by Archbishop Pezzi, Moscow. Archbishop Pezzi is a member of the Fratrenity of St. Charles Borromeo, which is a priestly order established in 1985 and is born of the charism of CL, the charism of our beloved Don Giussani. Like Fr. Carrón's intervention, His Excellency's is well worth your time.

To end on a lighter note, the IC, as always, shows concern for our souls in this digital age by How To Be A Catholic "Tips on a Clip" Campaign.