tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post4786651984576076914..comments2024-02-14T14:53:03.810-07:00Comments on Καθολικός διάκονος: Humanae Vitae and the communio sanctorumDeacon Scotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01385969740195992108noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-53786803060987543272008-11-25T07:12:00.000-07:002008-11-25T07:12:00.000-07:00Scott, one objection I have heard to HV is that it...Scott, one objection I have heard to HV is that it seems to presuppose that all couples are able to avail themselves of periodic abstinence in order to space the births of their children. For some couples (for medical reasons), this periodic abstinence requires complete abstinence, except at times when the couple wishes to conceive. This suggests that these couples would need to be abstinent for a year or longer? Or say, if a couple conceives six children in the first seven years of marriage, then the rest of the marriage would be virginal? These suggestions are in contrast to the Church's teaching on fasting and abstinence from meat during Lent (for example), in which individuals are not asked to make extraordinary sacrifices (I think), and in which the Church takes a nuanced stance and makes allowances for medical considerations.Suzannehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11951438226869811270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-15854688566513720132008-11-25T08:25:00.000-07:002008-11-25T08:25:00.000-07:00Suzanne: There certainly are difficult cases, like...Suzanne:<br><br> There certainly are difficult cases, like the one you mention. It is our wont to jump right to them, as with abortion when we jump right to cases of rape and incest. A couple in the predicament you describe would be well-advised to seek good pastoral counsel. However, I don't think <i>"most"</i> couples fall into this category.<br><br>If using artificial contraception is intrinsically evil, it is my reading of <i>HV</i> that it is (I could very well be wrong-I am open to correction), this complicates matter you introduce tremendously. The Church does make certain allowances for medical reasons in most every situation. There is a post wrote for our RCIA blog earlier this year entitled <a href="http://thecathedralofthemadeleinerciablog.blogspot.com/2007/12/case-study-in-faith-and-morals.html" rel="nofollow">A case study in faith and morals</a> that deals with a similar issue.Dcn Scott Dodgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09994604395739905637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-91795389581966989982008-11-25T09:12:00.000-07:002008-11-25T09:12:00.000-07:00In pastoral ministry, as in all things, there is t...In pastoral ministry, as in all things, there is tension between being cognizant of not imposing burdens on people that are too much for them to bear (i.e., you have to assess where the person is, not where you think they ought to be) and not compromising when it comes to instructing people. It seems that what people get, depending on the disposition of minister, is one or the other of these. <br><br>As you wrote about awhile ago, this where Giussani's method becomes so valuable because it is not about telling people what they should do, but about having enough confidence in them and in God, who is Truth, to arrive at the correct answer and have it seem like a new discovery, not something that is imposed.Dcn Scott Dodgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09994604395739905637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-63776827636738363492008-11-25T10:15:00.000-07:002008-11-25T10:15:00.000-07:00Thanks a lot for your responses. I read the post ...Thanks a lot for your responses. I read the post that you pointed out and followed the link. Very interesting/creative solution that the bishops offer!<br><br>I remember when I was pregnant with my first daughter and began to research about breastfeeding. Discovering how much better breastfeeding is for the baby, forced me to rethink or to think at all about what my expectations of motherhood were. I had been planning to breastfeed, but not for as long, nor as exclusively, as the medical information indicated was best. But it became a moral issue for me -- if I am capable of giving my child something that is of direct benefit to her health and life, then to withhold it would be a sin. I don't know, off the top of my head, whether the bishops have any teaching about this (perhaps you know of one)? Likewise with the question of getting up to care for a fussy baby in the middle of the night. There is nothing like reproduction to teach us the meaning of laying down one's life for another. <br><br>But I wonder whether focusing simply on contraception (if not to the exclusion of the other moral questions, at least with far more emphasis) is what makes this teaching so difficult for Joe and Mary Catholic to understand and/or accept? I understand that in the case of contraception we are speaking of the bare minimum -- life versus never-a-chance-at-life -- rather than about "quality of life" (as in the case of breastfeeding). But, particularly because there seems to be a silence concerning the quality of life, the contraception teaching could seem to have, perhaps, an ambiguous motive?<br><br>It is also clear that the existence of infant formula is a mercy for those who are unable to breastfeed for medical reasons. A ban on infant formula would be cruel and unusual. Perhaps some Catholics feel that a ban on artificial contraception is likewise cruel and unusual?<br><br>I am not saying that such a ban actually IS cruel and unusual. I'm just saying that it may be perceived as such.<br><br>Thanks for your patience with my questions, Scott -- I am glad that I am not in a position to counsel couples about HV -- but it pricks my conscience that I am glad about it. Perhaps your answers will help to open me up to the possibility.Suzannehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11951438226869811270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-77212979435488472292008-11-25T18:31:00.000-07:002008-11-25T18:31:00.000-07:00It would be impossible to deny that in this day an...It would be impossible to deny that in this day and age it is a difficult teaching. The moral questions are important, but so are the practical ones, like is it possible to live this way, meaning an authentic Christian existence. It is not possible if you are not willing lay down your life, to struggle, to question, heck, even at times to fail. <br><br>Besides, observing rules is not what leads to holiness. We can obey all the rules we want, we can be bitter and resentful, we can complain and grouse. We can be self-righteous about it. None of these attiudes, even when strictly living by the rules, leads to holiness. Again, it is the attitude of self-righteousness with which Jesus takes issue with the Pharisees. One thing <i>HV</i> is quite clear about is that NFP is just a natural form of contraception. <br><br>What I personally have issues with, is when people do not even bother to clear about what the church is proposing before dismissing it, whether it is about co-habitation and sexual relations before marriage, or what the church teaches about sex. On the NFP side, people need to do less cheerleading and start engaging the issues people give for not adhering to what the church teaches. Further, the church needs to take seriously what it teaches by requiring couples who marry in the church, at least those of child-bearing age, to take a full course of NFP, instead of a three hour NFP in a nutshell. What if a couple becomes convicted during marriage preparation that they want to love what the church teaches? Suppose their marriage is a month away and that they don't necessarily want to conceive on their honeymoon? There are a lot of issues to be engaged, which is why when Abp Naumann, back in 2006, started to talk about denying communion to couples who do not live this teaching, I was upset. I was upset because until he tells all his pastors, parochial vicars, deacons, and others who prepare people for marriage and who work with married to couples, not only to teach, but to pastorally support people, any discussion of denial of communion is just plain mean.Dcn Scott Dodgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09994604395739905637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-58841261372110378802008-11-25T21:19:00.000-07:002008-11-25T21:19:00.000-07:00Thank you. There is a lot to think about. In my ...Thank you. There is a lot to think about. In my life and in my work as a catechist, I have found that conversion usually works very slowly, and threats are antithetical to it. <br><br>Did you read the latest from Nick Cafardi?<br><br>http://ncronline3.org/drupal/?q=node/2703<br><br>I thought it might interest you.Suzannehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11951438226869811270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-62435017508064801462008-11-25T21:44:00.000-07:002008-11-25T21:44:00.000-07:00It sounds like a lot of what I wrote. I am glad he...It sounds like a lot of what I wrote. I am glad he dimed out some bishops on this.Dcn Scott Dodgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09994604395739905637noreply@blogger.com