tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post1851924219197439578..comments2024-02-14T14:53:03.810-07:00Comments on Καθολικός διάκονος: Atheism: "The game has changed"Deacon Scotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01385969740195992108noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-82732186734290047762009-09-07T13:07:31.366-06:002009-09-07T13:07:31.366-06:00Really? I felt a bit sad watching because The Offi...Really? I felt a bit sad watching because The Office (UK version) is brilliant and this was just facile and boring. Gervaise could do great things but instead he just plays to the crowd.<br><br>The childhood story totally didn't chime with my experience. My parents actually were honest about not believing in God at all. I don't have much time for an "atheism" that can't even start at the beginning.<br><br>Sorry, but this is some of the more meagre fare of the UK.religionofrationalityhttp://religionofrationality.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-5695511370776988232009-09-07T14:09:13.305-06:002009-09-07T14:09:13.305-06:00I agree that what Gervais has to say in the video ...I agree that what Gervais has to say in the video is sad, but obviously in a different way. As a believer, I never find it boring or facile when people talk about God and their beliefs about God. <br><br>The point is that for most people contemporary atheism isn't really based on scientific or consciously philosophical objections, but on what might be called (to employ an overused term) existential ones. Of course, when examined closely, as with Spencer's point about the application of Occam's razor, it amounts to a philosophical objection. This is why, to my mind, it is more aptly described as a kind of <i>lassiez-faire</i> agnosticism. <br><br>My point (I do not claim to speak for Spencer) is that starting <i>"at the beginning,"</i> which I take you to mean, coming from a different viewpoint, the traditional starting point of discourse about the proposition <i>God exists</i>, is of no use in our the present milieu, even if you want educated atheists. <br><br>To that end, many people are all too happy to endorse, say, Dawkins' theses as irrefutable proofs, not understanding that he would likely fail a college-level course in metaphysics, quite apart from whether the proposition is true. Are arguments, like the Hubble telescope hasn't spotted an old man with a long beard, really that convincing? Let's face it, Dawkins in particular is only slightly more sophisticated!<br><br>On the other hand, too often Christians are worried about what everyone else is doing. Increasingly, I take my cue from the early church, the pre-Nicene, that is, the pre-Constantinian church. I do not do so to over- dramatize or oversimplify our present situation (being post-Christian is very different from being pre-Christian), but to see what it means to live this way in Flannery O'Connor's <i>"God-haunted"</i> society.<br><br>Contemporary atheism in the U.S. isn't any less meagre than it is in the U.K. After all, Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are popular here, too. Additionally, we have Sam Harris, along with a few others.Dcn Scott Dodgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09994604395739905637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-27531885015448469782009-09-07T14:13:54.408-06:002009-09-07T14:13:54.408-06:00I suppose if there wasn't a God, then there wo...I suppose if there wasn't a God, then there wouldn't be Atheists... (?) I guess...Bill Cherry jrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17945668997358677432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-86681392753636594292009-09-08T16:54:21.679-06:002009-09-08T16:54:21.679-06:00Reminds me of a Dane Cook skit...viewer discretion...Reminds me of a Dane Cook skit...viewer discretion is advised...<br><br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgoMoTyBwocrebeccanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-39201262537950483892009-09-08T18:04:55.855-06:002009-09-08T18:04:55.855-06:00Interesting video. Why do many atheists like to sh...Interesting video. Why do many atheists like to share their non-belief with everyone? Maybe they really want to believe - and they are searching for a reason to believe.<br><br>I wonder what the young people in the audience were thinking..they all laughed. I wonder if they asked any questions concerning his non-belief.Brianhttp://www.abookofeverything.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-22886015041355585722009-09-08T18:53:59.288-06:002009-09-08T18:53:59.288-06:00I think that line of reasoning is right on--i.e. t...I think that line of reasoning is right on--i.e. that the "game has changed." And I think it's nothing new, either. The days of the great 19th century theoretical atheists are long gone; and to replace them, we have the era of, as you mention, extreme agnosticism.<br><br>I was reminded of Henri DeLubac's book, "The Drama of Atheist Humanism." As he chronicles the rise of modern atheism, he also notes where it is going (more or less). In light of Feuerbach, Marx and Comte, he mentions Dostoevsky as modern atheism's "prophet," and Nietzsche as it's "mystic." And I think the sort of radical cultural agnosticism you refer to is nothing other than the concrete application of the Nietzschian principles--viz. asserting so forcibly the strength and character of one's humanity that any serious thought or consideration of God is simply forced as far back as possible.<br><br>In a way, the new atheism is not anything like the old ("modern") atheism. But I think it's clear to see how and why the game has changed as it has; and it is equally as possible to discern, in light of the notable shift, some new strategies and 'arguments' that will work in combating this novel trend. In other words, we must retain the principles of the late 19th and early 20th century debates, but we must find a way to present them that penetrates the initial carelessness and auto-preoccupation of our culture.Andrew Haineshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10671184824570808892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-45871290023738421212009-09-08T19:07:38.238-06:002009-09-08T19:07:38.238-06:00"the concrete application of the Nietzschian ...<i>"the concrete application of the Nietzschian principles--viz. asserting so forcibly the strength and character of one's humanity that any serious thought or consideration of God is simply forced as far back as possible."</i><br><br>This hits the nail sqaurely on the head, I think, because the question doesn't really go away and, at least among the more sophisticated, there is a nostalgia for belief, if not for God. I think witness, how we (i.e., Christians) live is the key, are our lives made new, do we show forth a new humanity? <br><br>The question for many is that, given the complexities and commitments of Christian faith, what value is added, apart from telling me serve others, which many I can do without believing?<br><br>This application of Nietzschian principles I call asserting yourself against reality. There is something to be said for many experiencing the futility of this spiiting into the wind manner of living.Dcn Scott Dodgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09994604395739905637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-55272083460950199752009-09-09T09:18:23.961-06:002009-09-09T09:18:23.961-06:00In the end, what it boiled down to me, was that we...In the end, what it boiled down to me, was that we all have a longing for something. As an atheist, that something can be anything but God.rebeccanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8254272216866737058.post-84334102078321239902009-09-10T09:39:44.460-06:002009-09-10T09:39:44.460-06:00Too often we give answers to questions nobody is a...Too often we give answers to questions nobody is asking.<br><br>Amen, brother.The Ironic Catholicnoreply@blogger.com